thomas lang clips are up at hudson

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Originally posted by matricks:
However, i do find it funny when seemingly jealous players can sit there and put such fine players under the microscope and say they are judging their "musicality"; when really they are just trying to justify their own lack of skill and dedication by trying to find fault in those which define the upper echelon of drumming. I am not mentioning any one particular case here on this board, although i have seen it here too. Derek brought up a good point and i guess it put me on this track.

I find it laughable when players think they can blast someone like Thomas.

Critique is ok and personal taste is ok too but when the average drummer wants to criticize someone of such great dedication and someone who is a true credit to what we do, i don't have any patience for that at all.

To those with that attitude how about you practice 6 hours a day like Thomas, get gigs like Thomas, get chops like Thomas, but till then remember how good you are COMPARED to Thomas and use what he does as an inspiration to better yourself instead of picking apart what you don't like and using as a crutch to justify to yourself your own mediocrity.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Matricks no offense, and this is not a personal attack on you. So if you feel it is then i apologize now before i say what i do.

This seems to be a frequent point raised on HOD (not just by matricks) about people making their voicing/opinion of what they like and dislike about players they've seen and heard.

Personally, it doesnt grate me that much what i read here, I kind of expect it wherever/whatever the forum is. Its human nature too me.

The thing i dislike the most is the B.S of....And it sounds so childish (hey, i aint no super mature person here either)...."You guys are jealous because you cant do those things he/they can".
Its crap.....people say these things because they can and...because they want to. Jealousy has nothing to do with it whatsoever and i'm sure most people can truely SEE that. In reality, some people post these things and dont give much thought to the reaction they will recieve....its just an off the cuff remark.
"hey i dont like tomatoes..they suck" would this render....you're jealous because you cant grow them like tommy the farmer in Idaho? I doubt it.

Matricks if you look at this post and the one after...you've slammed people for slamming other drummers. If my eyes dont decieve me, you are doing exactly the same thing to THOSE people who slammed by slamming them. It Doesnt bother me none....i try not to slate as much as i can.

Everybody does it at some time/point because thats the way we are. If people think virgils sh*t, thats what they think, The only important thing IS....does virgil think he's sh*t.

What others THINK is really irrelavent unless it affects you. You could say, like your post has affected me to respond to it. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Ah, we got some HOD energy flowing here boyz! Good stuff indeed.

At NAMM two tears ago I got to hang a little with Curt Bisquera & Abe Jr. Curt just got off the road with Boz Scaggs and Elton John, Abe was doing something (this was pre Sting & Paul M). I asked Curt this question;
Do you ever feel a little insecure walking around here all day and seeing these 14yo's blazing away with serious chops?
He immediately replied, saying, "Jeff Porcaro told me something years ago, if you want to make a living playing drums you better be able to play time." Abe Jr heard this and laughed out loud...he then said, "Yep."

So...all to say, if you want to go the road of pioneer, explorer (Smith, Williams, Weckl, etc) you better get in a nice paying gig like Journey and then do your thing or be content being yourself playing your own musical style of preference.
If you want to play in front of big crowds, you have to be able to play popular music and nail that type of gig.
If you want studio work, again, another set of definate skills. What makes ol' Vinnie so great, IMO, is his career covers it ALL...his bio is INSANE.

When it comes down to it, each man (woman) is responsible for their choices. Time is short/Life's a vapor...make each day count.

I think a good thread might be the idea of goal setting. Did you read Lang's practice diary from his site? See my post on page 1 for the address.

When I see Virgil play live or catch clips of Lang, etc., I then put on some ol' skool R&B, funk, or pop music with very simple beats. Those grooves are as legitimate as the complex ones. If a musical style has value and appeal, then a drummer needs to make it happen which makes that style legitimate.
I really believe that technically, Lang could play Lido Shuffle, but would it feel like Jeff? How about Dream Weaver by Keltner? Ticket to Ride by Ringo? All these monster chops boys can do it on paper--no problem, so could half of America's garage drummers...BUT, would it FEEL like Keltner, Porcaro, Mason, Gadd, Ringo, Erico, Purdie, etc.?
Some of the stuff Billy Ward is doing now has such feel and dynamics I really don't know if a fusion type drummer with obvious chops could get the feel he's mastering, especially with his hats and song interpretation. What I loved about Porcaro isn't the difficulty of his playing, it was WHAT he played and WHEN...he always seemed to play the right voice for the song. His ability to interpert the music and play for the song was moving to me over the course of hundreds of tunes. And through all of it, he developed a signature feel with specific pet fills that will always be Porcaro. I mean, the obvious question has to be asked, "Why did so many producers want to work with this guy?"

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 20, 2003 07:13 AM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>

I agree with Me2...

All we're doing is sharing our likes and dislikes. As long as it's done respectfully, I have no problems reading comments I may disagree with on one of my favorite drummers, subjects, etc... For example, to say that so and so does not swing as much as so and so is not being jealous at all! All it is is making a statement and I see no problem there.

Thomas seems to be a real nice guy and seems to have a real nice down-to-earth attitude too. At least that's the first impression I got. He's showing himself to become one the leaders/masters of technical drumming and ALL THE BEST TO HIM!! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sun.gif[/img]

That does not mean that I must refrain from making comments on some aspects of his playing either. For all you know, Thomas Lang may well welcome all criticisms, forcing himself to look back at his own playing and attempt to improve in any given areas.

For me, I always ask fellow musicians to share on my playing... Yeah often times it hurts my ego but then it motivates me to go back and practice on those areas and God knows how much work is left for me to do!!! Not enough time on my hands.... [img]mad.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by beat Hit:
For all you know, Thomas Lang may well welcome all criticisms, forcing himself to look back at his own playing and attempt to improve in any given areas.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks beat hit.

I must say....if any of the guys read some of the comments about themselves posted here, that are considered derogative. They'd either (a) laugh their a$$es of (b)post a responce (c) send mom in to biotch slap us!

Whoever said JoJo aint no good i've called the Doctor for cuz...you aint got NO Pulse and must be dead! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

Steve.... you seem to have got rid of the ugly orange quote bar. Excellent stuff! [img]wink.gif[/img]

We need to learn as musicians and drummers and to seperate the drumming from the style they are playing or whether it is in a solo context or not. Guys all over the Internet get blasted all the time based on whether they play jazz or do not play jazz, or they play rock or do not play rock. Or what they did was in a solo context or it was not. Or can he play pop or not, guess what just focus on the stinking drumming, when did playing pop or funk make you good or bad, or if what you did was a solo, then the comments come in, real faintly, but can he play in a band? can he play 2&4, this is the crap that gets me, judge the drumming on it's own, I said before I personally HATE country music BUT there are some darn good musicians playing in Nashville and they do some great work, I do not want to say THEY suck because they play country,then you here someone say, but I want to know can they swing, who gives a RIP, listen to what they did and judge that. Does swinging make you IT!! NO.

Just because I like Virgil and Vinnie and Weckl, and Thomas and so on and so forth does not mean I do not appreciate and like a Keltner or a Vega because I do and I did(sad that he is gone.)Hey I LOVE fusion but I grew up listening to my Dad's old stuff, with Russ, and Marotta and Nigel and many others banging away, they were great in their own way. I am not a big Elton fan anymore but I will not BASH Nigel because I am not into that style of music much anymore. I like what he did on it's own.

Some guy gets on stage and pulls off an incredible solo, with all the trimmings, good time, great phrasing, creativity, precision, consistency, fluidity etc. and then you hear the faint whisperings, Oh yeah that was good [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] but can he play r&b or play in pop band does he play in a polka band [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img] and I want to smack the guy and say were you even watching and learning or did you shut yourself off because it was a solo, well I guess that was his narrow minded choice, but he did not give the guy a chance, just instant rejection.

If we do not like a style, or soloing, or if it is to over or under or whatever, maybe let's just appreciate the drumming for what it is. I know we like what we like, but let us get something from the drumming if we can.

Even with some guys, I personally might not care for their drumming concepts or dig the idea going alot, or maybe even the style is not to my liking but I want to be able to say, hey the guy is a darn good drummer and has his STUFF together and 2 thumbs up for that< whether I dig the overall theme or not.

Regards Digital

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Originally posted by Digital Man:
We need to learn as musicians and drummers and to seperate the drumming from the style they are playing or whether it is in a solo context or not.
Maybe TOLERANCE is the word. We need to be tolerant of others opinions, if someone expresses their dislike, we need to be tolerant for their lack of seeing the Bigger picture.

Guys all over the Internet get blasted all the time based on whether they play jazz or do not play jazz, or they play rock or do not play rock. Or what they did was in a solo context or it was not. Or can he play pop or not, guess what just focus on the stinking drumming, when did playing pop or funk make you good or bad, or if what you did was a solo, then the comments come in, real faintly, but can he play in a band? can he play 2&4, this is the crap that gets me, judge the drumming on it's own, I said before I personally HATE country music BUT there are some darn good musicians playing in Nashville and they do some great work, I do not want to say THEY suck because they play country,then you here someone say, but I want to know can they swing, who gives a RIP, listen to what they did and judge that. Does swinging make you IT!! NO.
And will continue TOO get blasted, thats a sad fact of life.

What i see is, people who have looked at session musicians or the Virgils ect look at other players in a different light. The truth is, everyone is not the same.
I dont expect every drummer i see to be able to pull off EVERY style of music or to be able to read and to have a CV that lists a resume of TOP artists which i can then say..."Yes..now him...HE can play". Vinnie happens to be one of these exceptions or, close to one envisioning someone who can do those things. But vinnie is an exception to the rules..the rest of us are mere mortals.

When you listen to THE best continually, its hard to put others into a proper perspective because that standard you've seen/heard is now the "RULE" to which you gauge others. Sadly its not a good gauge.... which is why the comments come out. He's
this and that when really ALL he is, is another drummer/musician doing the best he knows how.


I will not BASH Nigel because I am not into that style of music much anymore. I like what he did on it's own.
Digital....you dont bash nigel because you're not a bashing person. YOU can see the bigger picture and thats probably due to your age?
It takes time for others to SEE what you do and you cant speed that process up, just the same as you cant make yourself a faster/better player than .."It takes the time it takes". Until then, you'll see the same comments come up, and it'll be for you to try and accept others NOT seeing that Bigger picture.
For me... I dont care if a drummer has inconsitent time cant play the tricks people expect vinnie to pull off or plays as smoothly as weckl the mullet (joke!). What i'm interested in is....did he actually tug my emotions in anyway whatsoever and if he didnt why was that.

Some guy gets on stage and pulls off an incredible solo, with all the trimmings, good time, great phrasing, creativity, precision, consistency, fluidity etc. and then you hear the faint whisperings, Oh yeah that was good [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] but can he play r&b or play in pop band does he play in a polka band [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]
Expect more of the same..sadly

and I want to smack the guy and say were you even watching and learning or did you shut yourself off because it was a solo, well I guess that was his narrow minded choice, but he did not give the guy a chance, just instant rejection.
If you look at this point you make, are you not rejecting THAT guy and not giving HIM a chance because of one comment he makes? Like he's making one comment himself about THAT drummer? Its basically the same and believe me..WE ALL do it at times. We all have flaws....its what we learn from....but it takes time. Great post btw

Regards Digital

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

No Me2 I will not reject the guy because I am Upset with him, in fact I will probaly be more determined to get through to him, well because that is my Stubborn personality coming through [img]wink.gif[/img] I want him to glean what he can even if he is not into soloing on it's own etc.

By the way Me2 just watched some newer footage of Virgil at the Potato and MY GOODNESS! did I ever get something from that [img]biggrin.gif[/img] he just kicked my BUTT!, some of his absolutely best stuff I have ever seen. Do not have to hit me on the head twice to listen and watch him [img]tongue.gif[/img] as you might of guessed. Hope to see you over at the V.D. board once in awhile.

Regards Digital

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Originally posted by Digital Man:
well because that is my Stubborn personality coming through [img]wink.gif[/img] I want him to glean what he can even if he is not into soloing on it's own etc.
OK! the bigger picture IS......Square peg..round hole...wont fit..but keep hammering anyways. [img]wink.gif[/img]

By the way Me2 just watched some newer footage of Virgil at the Potato.
And would that be a Purchasable item my good fellow? if so from where may i ask?

Hope to see you over at the V.D. board once in awhile.
I'll try to fit it in with all these sessions/clinics book signings and world tours i'm up to..... in my OWN mind! HA! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Regards Digital

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Me2 sent you a private message, check it out.

Digital

Me2 sent you another message, and YES! the new footage is MUCH better! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] Hee Hee.

Digital